Sex, Love, and Addiction

Part 2: Couples, Conflict and Resolution with Dr. Stan Tatkin

Dr. Stan Tatkin, PsyD, MFT, is a clinician, researcher, teacher, and developer of A Psychobiological Approach to Couples Therapy® (PACT). He has a clinical practice in Calabasas, CA, and developed the PACT Institute for the purpose of training other psychotherapists to use this method in their clinical practice. In this episode, Dr. Stan discusses the 5 things that break a relationship apart, how to recover from a betrayal, and how to live a pro-relationship life.    TAKEAWAYS: [1:45] How do you recover from a betrayal?  [6:00] In a society, we are forced to grow up for the betterment of our tribe.  [7:25] What do couples complain the most about?  [11:25] People will commit the same mistakes over and over because they don’t understand the internal errors that they’re making.  [15:25] What happens if you’re stuck in a relationship ‘role’ that you don’t like?  [18:20] What does it mean to be pro-relationship? [20:35] Your attachment needs are not rooted in love. Dr. Stan explains why.  [26:00] Want to know more about Dr. Stan? Link in the show notes!    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Thepactinstitute.com In Each Other’s Care by Dr. Stan Tatkin   QUOTES: “There are cultures where it’s emphatically insistent and people do grow up because the culture demands that you operate with each other.” “We do the same things that mess up relationships, no matter what kind of relationships they are, and we always will if we don’t understand our nature.” “Everything I am talking about is inline with being selfish. Being pro-relationship is being pro-self. They are one and the same.”

Part 1: Couples, Conflict and Resolution with Dr. Stan Tatkin

Dr. Stan Tatkin, PsyD, MFT, is a clinician, researcher, teacher, and developer of A Psychobiological Approach to Couples Therapy® (PACT). He has a clinical practice in Calabasas, CA, and developed the PACT Institute for the purpose of training other psychotherapists to use this method in their clinical practice. In this episode, Dr. Stan discusses what really is the glue that keeps relationships together, why they are so messy, and how you can better define it with the person you love.    TAKEAWAYS: [3:50] Let’s talk about conflict in a relationship.  [5:05] What do people actually view as ‘important’?  [7:05] People have the ability to ‘make things up’, so it’s important that you and your partner are on the same page when it comes to a relationship.  [9:25] Someone might be something you’ve always wanted, but they’re also going to be a lot of things that ‘you don’t want’. It’s important to navigate through that.  [11:20] There has to be a reason why two people join together and it has to be for more than just love.  [18:50] How can you move through a relationship consciously?  [23:00] When you’re in the middle of conflict, how do you resolve it or go through it in a healthy way?  [28:35] Sometimes, you need to fall on your sword so that you and your partner can find a way to communicate again. It’s a team sport.  [32:40] Like with everything, good conflict resolution is a skill that anybody can learn. As you learn, you’ll make mistakes, you won’t be perfect, but you will get better at it.  [33:30] How do you have agreement when there’s been a betrayal?    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Thepactinstitute.com In Each Other’s Care by Dr. Stan Tatkin   QUOTES: “Conflict is a very human thing. If you’re a human primate, you’re going to get into conflict.” “In a relationship that we are creating, we have to define it. We have to make sure that we are creating the same picture in our heads.” “Love and attraction wanes. A lot goes. But we’re still accountable if we’re going to play fair and work together.”

Part 2: Sex + Porn Addicts Share About Their Healing Journey with Dr Rob, Larry and Jay

Dr. Rob continues his discussion with Jay and Larry, two men in recovery, to help people understand that addiction is a lot more complex than it seems on the surface. The opinion you have of yourself can keep you stuck in destructive patterns. It’s so important to consciously put yourself in healthy and positive environments, like in a recovery or group program, if you ever wish to break free from the power of addiction.     TAKEAWAYS: [2:00] Larry had this internal dialogue going through his head, “This is just who you are.” [3:20] Larry’s wife found out about him acting out at least 4-5 times. He shares how it completely tore her about.  [6:55] Larry didn’t realize all of his lies were causing his wife PTSD.  [7:25] If there was anything that Larry could change, it would be to tell the truth and to tell it faster.  [8:45] Jay was living in a fantasy world and he didn’t realize it was destroying the people who loved and cared for him.  [13:05] Why did Jay go to a residential program? Wasn’t group therapy enough?  [15:45] Jay was able to prove through actions that he was taking his recovery seriously.  [18:00] Larry’s experience with Dr. Rob was life changing.  [22:15] Mentorship is a very important piece to recovery. Jay has taken this on as part of his recovery and healing journey.  [24:00] When you lose trust with the people you love, then you lose what really defines the relationship.    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss   QUOTES: “What other people don’t know won’t hurt them; is probably the biggest lie in addiction.” “I would think I was telling the truth, but I wasn’t. I’d change a slight detail.” “A residential program accelerated my recovery. I was surrounded by people who were experts in the field and at the same time I had peers who made me feel safe.”  

Part 1: Sex + Porn Addicts Share About Their Healing Journey with Dr Rob, Larry and Jay

Dr. Rob speaks with two people in recovery, Jay and Larry, about their addiction and the type of damage it has caused their families. Jay and Larry also talk about why they felt comfort in their addictions and how their lives have been improved now that they are sober and aware of their problem.   TAKEAWAYS: [2:25] Why did Jay seek help and go to treatment? [4:15] Jay was frustrated that he couldn’t fix himself on his own. [5:25] Larry shares his experience with addiction.  [6:05] Larry was so afraid of connecting with people, which is why he found comfort with porn.  [9:15] At first, Larry thought it was his wife’s problem on why they were having issues. It turned out, it was his addiction that was the problem. [12:30] Why did it take Jay 45 years to seek professional help? [15:50] Jay’s first therapist did not believe in sex addiction. She thought he was just a liar. [18:55] Why did Larry keep telling his wife about the slips he had with porn? Why didn’t he just keep it a secret? [21:15] Larry knew it was unhealthy, and Larry knew it was terrible, but he couldn’t stop.  [26:15] Jay talks a little bit about his childhood, and why he found comfort in sex with strangers.  [30:00] When Jay would travel, it would trigger him because he was so lonely and he wanted to act out to fill the void. [32:35] Jay would try to use willpower for it to go away, but he just couldn’t sustain it.   RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss   QUOTES: “I tried to do this on my own, but it wasn’t until I got group therapy where I was able to get through my shame.” “Just going to a weekly meeting wasn’t enough. It wasn’t working. I was in a state of denial.” “I never realized what I was doing was part of an addiction. I thought I was just being a guy.”

Part 2: Support Groups for Adult Children of Alcoholics with Gary Seidler

Dr. Rob speaks with Alcohol Counselor Gary Seidler about the long-term effects children experience when living in an alcoholic home. Gary and Dr. Rob talks about trauma, the importance of storytelling and the ability to vocalize some of your unique experiences with addiction, and they offer clarification on what is considered a true addiction in this week’s episode.    TAKEAWAYS: [2:45] At the root of every addiction, there is some form of trauma.  [4:25] What is the difference between big T and little T trauma?  [7:30] More and more people are talking about the traumas they grew up with.  [9:40] How do you know if you have an addiction? Isn’t technically everything an addiction? [14:00] Children of alcoholics are completely focused on the other person.  [14:45] Gary is currently writing a book for adult children of sex addicts. What are some of the similarities/differences Gary sees among this group?  [17:20] Adult children of sex addicts often carry a lot of shame about their own sexual behavior and sexuality.  [19:30] These adult children have a very unique lens of extremes. Gary expands on what this means.  [22:10] How do these adult children deal with intimacy?  [23:30] With the internet, you’re just one click away from seeing whatever sexual content you want. [26:45] Unfortunately, young children are learning about sex from porn.   [31:05] Are you sure you don’t need help? Remember that denial is the enemy.  [33:30] Sex addiction feels so personal to the family even though it’s not the spouse or children’s fault.  [36:05] Your internal shame can slowly go away by talking about it in a support group.  RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Gary on LinkedIn   QUOTES: “When our family [appears] perfect or you don’t talk about it, we don’t learn.” “Nobody comes to treatment to grow personally. People come in because they’re in crisis.” “We adapt to situations that are intolerable when we love somebody.”

Part 1: Support Groups for Adult Children of Alcoholics with Gary Seidler

Dr. Rob speaks with Alcohol Counselor Gary Seidler about the long-term effects children experience when living in an alcoholic home. What happens to these children when they become older? Should children know about their parent’s substance abuse and sex addiction issues? And what should adult children be aware of now that they’re no longer in an alcoholic home? All these questions and more are answered on this week’s podcast.    TAKEAWAYS: [3:55] A little bit about Gary and his work in the mental health field.  [5:55] Why did Gary pursue this work with adult children of alcoholics?  [12:00] What are the symptoms of these adult children who grew up around or in alcoholic homes?  [16:30] Why was there such a need for young adults of alcoholics to have a rooms program?  [21:10] Addiction is a family issue. No one is truly suffering alone.  [22:20] Gary shares some of the people he admires over the years that have done great things in this field.  [24:30] In the early days of these adult children of alcoholic conferences, it was the first time some of these people could voice their pain and hurt with others who also understood.  [25:20] Addiction is passed on generationally. It doesn’t just stop at the addict. [30:10] Remember, going into rehab is only the beginning of your rehab journey.  [31:25] Gary shares his own personal experience with addiction and recovery.  [37:25] What does recovery mean to Gary?   RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Gary on LinkedIn   QUOTES: “John Bradshaw brought to the public consciousness the idea the dysfunction is not just in the addict, it spreads to the entire family.” “Addiction is really a family affair.” “For every addict, there are 3, 4, 5 people who are deeply affected.”

Part 1: Religion and Spirituality in Recovery with Jason Swilling MDiv

Dr. Rob invites Spiritual Counselor and Pastor, Jason Swilling, on to the podcast today. Jason works with Dr. Rob at the Seeking Integrity clinic. It doesn’t matter what religion you believe in, or do not believe in, this is a great podcast episode for anyone who wants to understand their connection to a higher power and what that might mean for you. It doesn’t matter if you are Muslim, Christian, or even an Atheist, Dr. Rob and Jason have some answers for you.    TAKEAWAYS: [2:05] A little bit about Jason and how he found Dr. Rob and his clinic.  [3:00] Although Jason studied Christianity and comes from that background. How does he work with people of other faiths?  [5:55] How does Jason help people work with some of their regrets and the things they did that went against their religious and moral beliefs?  [7:40] It’s not about failing God, it’s about failing yourself.  [11:05] How do you find your way back to God/religion?  [17:25] What about the people who do not have any religion or faith? How does Jason navigate that?  [18:00] In the 12-step program, you need some kind of faith. How do atheists manage or stay sober?  [23:20] It all comes down to your connection with others. Unfortunately, a lot of religious communities have forgotten this aspect.  [29:20] Dr. Rob feels like a lot of people are not welcomed in their religious communities and people then feel compelled to hide their shame and imperfections.  [35:15] As you share your secrets in a safe community, people in recovery get to experience something really beautiful for the first time. [39:25] Your recovery program works if you work it. Jason is proof of that.    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss   QUOTES: “The spirituality of 12-step recovery is all inclusive. There is no discrimination against certain religions.” “Often times a spirituality of a person is that it’s just me and God alone. I can take God off the shelf and I can put God on the shelf. And usually I put God on the shelf whenever I act out.” “I have friends who are atheists who are long-time sober and don’t believe in God. Religion or any of that, is not necessary to work the recovery program to stay sober.”

The Road to Forgiveness with Dr. Rob Weiss

Dr. Rob joins this week’s podcast in a solo episode to talk about the concept of forgiveness. The truth is, there is no true deadline or timeframe as to when you should forgive someone for all the hurt and damage they’ve caused you, so how do you move forward? Dr. Rob shares the stages of forgiveness and offers context and support on why you might still be resentful and/or revengeful towards the person that hurt you the most.    TAKEAWAYS: [2:30] How do you forgive someone you do not trust? [3:45] Many people believe they don’t think they could ever forgive or forget the damage their addict has caused them. [4:20] Forgiving and forgetting are not the same thing.  [9:30] Other people were able to see it, so why couldn’t you? Dr. Rob shares why.  [13:20] There are many stages of grief and we can flutter in between each of them back and forth.  [17:15] You have the right to be upset! You have the right to be furious!  [20:20] No one is truly ready to forgive. You can’t just say ‘now is the time’.  [23:30] How do you not hold a grudge/be resentful when your addict is on their path to recovery?  [28:15] If someone doesn’t want to act with empathy and to think of the other person, then they shouldn’t be in a relationship.  [33:00] It’s so attractive and validating to want to punish your addict for all the transgressions they’ve done to you.  [36:10] What are the stages of forgiveness?  [37:35] You can get stuck during the forgiveness process. This isn’t an easy thing to do.    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss   QUOTES: “The whole idea of forgiveness creates conflict within us because we feel we need to reach a ‘certain point’ and at that point, we’re ready to forgive” “A lot of us struggle with forgiveness because, in part, we blame ourselves. We say, ‘We should have known.’ and that’s when forgiveness becomes complicated.” “There’s a great reality of this loss and its effects. We can’t deny them, we can’t push them away, and we can’t say to ourselves ‘it’s time to forgive’.”  

Part 2: Dr. Jessica Higgins: How Do You Learn to Forgive?

Dr. Jessica Higgins is a licensed Psychologist with two graduate degrees in psychology and today she continues her discussion around forgiveness in part two of this episode. Dr. Rob and Dr. Jessica talk about why expressing vulnerability is not a weakness but an opening to a better relationship future, how to recover after a conflict and speak your peace, and why emotional unavailability and lack of connection tend to be more painful than the actual act of cheating in itself.    TAKEAWAYS: [1:30] It is possible to communicate healthy agreements on what is acceptable and unacceptable in your relationship. [3:30] Sometimes therapists assume or expect that the betrayed spouse will know how to react or talk to their spouse who is struggling with addiction.  [7:10] Instead of complaining to your spouse right away, there are benefits to journaling or writing down your thoughts about what their actions meant to you and how you perceived it.  [9:10] If we share vulnerability, your partner is more likely going to respond positively to that than if you were to act aggressively or accusatory.  [11:30] After reading hundreds of letters from betrayed spouses, it was never the cheating that hurt them the most. It was the emotional unavailability.  [14:30] You can show up in little ways and it will begin you on the path of having your betrayed partner feel valued again.  [18:20] The most important part to relationships is how you repair after a conflict or mistake.  [22:20] What are some indicators that a relationship is completely done?  [25:30] Interested in working with Dr. Jessica? Link to her website is in the show notes.    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Drjessicahiggins.com Shifting Criticism guide Empowered Relationship Podcast link Dr. Jessica Higgins Website QUOTES: “There’s an attempt to control your partner [when feeling hurt], this is understandable to want to feel that protection, to help your partnership, but it’s counterintuitive. It’s going to create a false sense of trust.” “Almost every time, betrayed partners write about how [their partner] felt unavailable. Didn’t think about how much I really needed you. You didn’t open up to me and I felt alone.” “The harm people cause each other is not the important part of this whole picture. We make mistakes. The important part is all in the repair. It’s not that you make a mistake, it’s you going back and saying you didn’t do that right.”

Part 1: Dr. Jessica Higgins: How Do You Learn to Forgive?

After a huge betrayal, it can be nearly impossible to come back to the center and find forgiveness. Some couples are ready to move forward and to forgive, but they keep getting stuck in the negative patterns of their betrayal, hurt, and distrust. Is there a healthy way to move forward? Should you even forgive in the first place? Dr. Jessica Higgins is a licensed Psychologist with two graduate degrees in psychology. She explains how you can move through these emotions and reach a place of repair within your relationship in this week’s episode.    TAKEAWAYS: [2:00] A little bit about Dr. Jessica.  [4:55] How do you help someone find peace after a deep betrayal?  [8:45] There is no guarantee around not being betrayed.  [10:35] It’s a different feeling when someone shows up to the relationship with intentionally vs. passivity.  [14:00] How do you move a couple forward from being stuck in a place of anger?  [18:45] Would it be helpful for the addict to explain their childhood to their partner?  [23:35] When will the betrayed spouse forgive me?  [25:40] Some people feel like if they remain resentful, they’re teaching the other person a lesson.    RESOURCES: Sex and Relationship Healing @RobWeissMSW Sex Addiction 101  Seeking Integrity Cruise Control: Understanding Sex Addiction in Gay Men  Prodependence: Moving Beyond Codependency Out of the Doghouse by Robert Weiss Drjessicahiggins.com QUOTES: “A lot of spouses are looking for a guarantee. What you’re doing [today] isn’t really real and I want you to prove it.” “There is a part of me that really wants to trust you and feel like I’m not managing you.” “There are 350 definitions of forgiveness. There are some nuances and it can be hard to pin down what you’re dealing with.”